Comments on: Death to Wind & Cloud: ASAT, Silent Sky, and the Lure of Uninvention http://www.localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud/ Information: It's the Magic Fri, 12 Mar 2010 03:11:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Butalbital. http://www.localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-48936 Butalbital. Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:31:49 +0000 http://localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud-asat-silent-sky-and-the-lure-of-uninvetion/#comment-48936 <strong>Butalbital and high....</strong> Butalbital mixed with alcohol. Butalbital order. Snort and butalbital. Purchase butalbital from mexico. Butalbital. Side effects of butalbital. Butalbital 50.00 90 tabs free shipping.... Butalbital and high….

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]]> By: Jacqueli http://www.localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-46832 Jacqueli Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:05:07 +0000 http://localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud-asat-silent-sky-and-the-lure-of-uninvetion/#comment-46832 <strong>Jacqueli...</strong> an interesting take on a fun subject.... Jacqueli…

an interesting take on a fun subject….

]]> By: Alondra http://www.localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-46823 Alondra Mon, 10 Aug 2009 06:56:12 +0000 http://localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud-asat-silent-sky-and-the-lure-of-uninvetion/#comment-46823 <strong>Alondra...</strong> an interesting take on a interesting subject.... Alondra…

an interesting take on a interesting subject….

]]> By: Taylor http://www.localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-46819 Taylor Mon, 10 Aug 2009 06:30:46 +0000 http://localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud-asat-silent-sky-and-the-lure-of-uninvetion/#comment-46819 <strong>Taylor...</strong> kinda makes you wonder.... Taylor…

kinda makes you wonder….

]]> By: Keon http://www.localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-46812 Keon Mon, 10 Aug 2009 05:42:28 +0000 http://localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud-asat-silent-sky-and-the-lure-of-uninvetion/#comment-46812 <strong>Keon...</strong> once again i outdid yourself... Keon…

once again i outdid yourself…

]]> By: Ziggity http://www.localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-250 Ziggity Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:23:36 +0000 http://localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud-asat-silent-sky-and-the-lure-of-uninvetion/#comment-250 Well, here's <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,1997286,00.html" rel="nofollow">an interesting take on things.</a> Government restriction on trade (or suppression of ideas) is the only impediment to global technology transfer, which is itself rather inexpensive. Perhaps those of you relentlessly monitoring the cutting edge have become so inured to the dazzle of newness that obsolescense and latent anarchic primitivism (<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6288845.stm" rel="nofollow">boats running aground?!</a>) are suddenly fresh. That is, old is the new new. How delightfully barbaric. Well, here’s an interesting take on things. Government restriction on trade (or suppression of ideas) is the only impediment to global technology transfer, which is itself rather inexpensive. Perhaps those of you relentlessly monitoring the cutting edge have become so inured to the dazzle of newness that obsolescense and latent anarchic primitivism (boats running aground?!) are suddenly fresh. That is, old is the new new. How delightfully barbaric.

]]> By: mattchew http://www.localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-248 mattchew Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:21:42 +0000 http://localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud-asat-silent-sky-and-the-lure-of-uninvetion/#comment-248 The ironic thing (ironic, at least in terms of this discussion) was that the decision was made in the 1990s to retire the blackbirds because satellites could do the same job much more effectively.... The question still arises as to whether destruction of the means of the production of the first instance of an emerging technology results in uninvention: if others are aware of the "uninvented" technology and have sufficient resources/motivation they can perform reverse engineering- or come up with alternate methods of achieving the same goal. I've only read the abstract, but this paper http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/klu/jott/2002/00000027/00000003/05087992 seems to argue "failure to preserve tacit knowledge could lead to uninvention" The ironic thing (ironic, at least in terms of this discussion) was that the decision was made in the 1990s to retire the blackbirds because satellites could do the same job much more effectively….

The question still arises as to whether destruction of the means of the production of the first instance of an emerging technology results in uninvention: if others are aware of the “uninvented” technology and have sufficient resources/motivation they can perform reverse engineering- or come up with alternate methods of achieving the same goal.

I’ve only read the abstract, but this paper
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/klu/jott/2002/00000027/00000003/05087992
seems to argue “failure to preserve tacit knowledge could lead to uninvention”

]]> By: Elisa http://www.localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-247 Elisa Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:28:44 +0000 http://localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud-asat-silent-sky-and-the-lure-of-uninvetion/#comment-247 Ken-ichi, I'll never catch up with your science-fiction knowledge, and I haven't read Diamond yet, so I'll have to limit myself to 203 speak... I hadn't thought of uninvention or oblivion of technology in terms of technological determinism. I suppose that if you make the argument that "technology is out there" and the role of mankind is to discover it, then it makes sense that it can be "covered" again (and then recovered later). If this is what you mean, then indeed, I don't attribute the loss of the Chinese fleet to any kind of determinism. I find the SCOT theory (and the hard-core one, even) much more convincing - the social processes of the China of the 15th and 16th centuries, which include the political and economical situation and a group of particularly powerful individuals that really, really didn't like big ships, constructed the demise of the Chinese naval power. Whether or not my negligible knowledge of Chinese history coupled with my ignorance of technological development theories makes up a plausible explanation is a whole different matter, though... Ken-ichi, I’ll never catch up with your science-fiction knowledge, and I haven’t read Diamond yet, so I’ll have to limit myself to 203 speak… I hadn’t thought of uninvention or oblivion of technology in terms of technological determinism. I suppose that if you make the argument that “technology is out there” and the role of mankind is to discover it, then it makes sense that it can be “covered” again (and then recovered later). If this is what you mean, then indeed, I don’t attribute the loss of the Chinese fleet to any kind of determinism. I find the SCOT theory (and the hard-core one, even) much more convincing - the social processes of the China of the 15th and 16th centuries, which include the political and economical situation and a group of particularly powerful individuals that really, really didn’t like big ships, constructed the demise of the Chinese naval power. Whether or not my negligible knowledge of Chinese history coupled with my ignorance of technological development theories makes up a plausible explanation is a whole different matter, though…

]]> By: is203 - Social and Organizational Issues of Information » Uninvention: Examples? http://www.localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-246 is203 - Social and Organizational Issues of Information » Uninvention: Examples? Wed, 24 Jan 2007 08:21:20 +0000 http://localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud-asat-silent-sky-and-the-lure-of-uninvetion/#comment-246 [...] Just thought I might abuse the blog for some shameless self-promotion: there’s an interesting discussion going on over at localoaf on the inevitability of technology and the potential for uninvention, in case anyone wants to jump in. [...] [...] Just thought I might abuse the blog for some shameless self-promotion: there’s an interesting discussion going on over at localoaf on the inevitability of technology and the potential for uninvention, in case anyone wants to jump in. [...]

]]> By: Ken-ichi http://www.localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-245 Ken-ichi Wed, 24 Jan 2007 08:09:29 +0000 http://localoaf.org/2007/01/19/death-to-wind-cloud-asat-silent-sky-and-the-lure-of-uninvetion/#comment-245 Cool replies, folks. Matt, thanks for the links on ASAT. I was aware the US already had ASAT missiles, but didn't know we already had functional lasers. Scary indeed. Regarding the Blackbird, just because the tool molds were destroyed doesn't mean the information necessary to build a Blackbird has been lost, correct? The Air Force didn't willfully abandon the spy plane technology. Presumably, they just made <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_aircraft" rel="nofollow">a better datamouse trap</a> (datamouse being <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DangerMouse" rel="nofollow">Danger Mouse</a>'s nerdier and less capitalized cousin). Elisa, to phrase your response in 203speak (forgive me), you are saying that the loss of the Chinese navy was due to arbitrary, non-deterministic forces, right? It was just a twist of fate, and if this was <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sliders" rel="nofollow">Sliders</a>, we could just jump to a continuity in which Nelson was crushed by a Chinese armada and the Brits still made terrible grey bland food except out of rice. I wish I had a copy of Guns/Germs/Steel on me, because I think Diamond had some determinisitic explanation. He would be a geographical determinist, I guess... Cool replies, folks. Matt, thanks for the links on ASAT. I was aware the US already had ASAT missiles, but didn’t know we already had functional lasers. Scary indeed. Regarding the Blackbird, just because the tool molds were destroyed doesn’t mean the information necessary to build a Blackbird has been lost, correct? The Air Force didn’t willfully abandon the spy plane technology. Presumably, they just made a better datamouse trap (datamouse being Danger Mouse’s nerdier and less capitalized cousin).

Elisa, to phrase your response in 203speak (forgive me), you are saying that the loss of the Chinese navy was due to arbitrary, non-deterministic forces, right? It was just a twist of fate, and if this was Sliders, we could just jump to a continuity in which Nelson was crushed by a Chinese armada and the Brits still made terrible grey bland food except out of rice. I wish I had a copy of Guns/Germs/Steel on me, because I think Diamond had some determinisitic explanation. He would be a geographical determinist, I guess…

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